Hi everyone,

I have 2 DDs. Maisie who is 4 wk and a toddler, Cailey, who is 2 and a half.
I didnt manage to BF cailey due to her being tongue tied and it wasnt picked up on til she was 4 months. I gave up breast feeding after 10 wks of being constantly stuck to the sofa and formula top ups.

This time round Maisie has been EBF on demand. She was 8lb 13oz at birth and last week weighed 9lb 10oz after dropping to 8lb 3oz on day 3.

The last few days her latch has seemed half hearted, shes not opening as wide and her suckle isnt as strong. Also she used to be quite efficient when feeding and was finished in 20 mins. Now she takes herself off and on the breast constantly during her feed and moves her her head side to side to get back on. It can take up to an hour for a feed now. Any ideas why shes doing this? Last ngt she had my nipples sore with faffinf on and off and not latching well so I gave her a 5oz bottle of EBM which she took at half 11, then another feed on me at 1.30am, and slept from 2am til 8.

She often falls asleep on the breast so I take her off and lay her down so she wakes up for more. I also think she uses me to comfort suckle and she cluster feeds in the evenings from about 6pm til midnight!! Im exhausted!!

Ive been reading the contented little baby book by gina ford she talks about baby emptying the breasts. Is it possible for your breasts to be completely empty? Also how do you know when baby is getting enough hind milk? Ive tried checking the colour as I know hind milk is more orangey in colour but it never seems to be like this when she decides shes done? She does have plenty wet and dirty nappies though! Shes not getting weighed again til Monday, so I deffo hope shes put on.

I also want to build up a supply of milk in the freezer, any advice on expressing. When is the best time to do it? I have a medela swing pump which I have used a couple of times and I seem to have a good supply but dont just want to pump at diff time sof the day!

Sorry for the novel and thanks for reading if youve got this far!

Louise xxx

Hiya

im by no means an expert but have been ebf my daughter who is now 21 wks. I also have a 4yr old but from about 10 days he was ff.

I asked a question on expressing a couple of weeks ago on this board with some excellant tips, if you look down the page you will find it.

My daughter fed constantly in the beginning and we has weight issues but i was told that if the poo is a mustard colour then they are getting the hind milk but if its greeny then they are mostly just getting the foremilk

DD also cluster feeds from about 5pm though i think a lot of this now is because she is tired and likes the comfort! she will not take a dummy or a bottle so now i just make sure everything i need to do for tea etc is done before then so we can sit and cuddle.

I dont think you can run out of milk. my boobs rarely felt full because she was constantly on them but as far as im aware they just keep reproducing. The more they suck the more your supply increases.

Have you tried going to bed with her and letting her feed whilst you both sleep? My DD now sleeps with me for this reason and the midwife at the hospital showed me what position to get in and the HV gave me a leaflet on how to co sleep safely. I needed my sleep as i also had my 4yr old to look after through the day. I now only wake up a couple of times when she latches on and then we both doze off and I feel so much better for it.

Hope it all works out for you, i love bfing and am so pleased we managed it this time.

hi sweet as sugar

everything you say sounds very normal for a bf baby. At 4 weeks old your milk supply is not fully established - your baby is still working towards doing that and by cluster feeding, particularly in the evening - she's ensuring future supply for herself. Its way too early for any kind of pattern with the feeding, its very normal for feeds to get longer and more frequent - all the demand will increase your supply so she's just doing what nature is telling her to do.

It sounds like she is getting sleepy at the breast but its tiring for her to do long, frequent feeds so she will be more half hearted in her sucks than when she was going on for 20 mins. Have you tried bf lying down, this might be away for you to get more rest.

I know this will be controversial, but i work helping women to bf and find gina ford's advice infuriating. Its aimed at bottle fed babies and its complete rubbish to talk about a breast being emptied like a bottle! A breast is never empty,obviously after a big feed theres less in it but the body is continually producing it so your baby is always getting something. Gina ford's ideas about timing bfs in the beginning are not useful - the only way to get a good milk supply is to let your baby feed as and when so dont feel pressurised by this advice.

I think once your milk is in after day 3 there isnt a lot of difference in the colour of fore and hind milk (obviously in the beginning the colostrum is yellow, but that will be long gone by now and should all appear whiter) plenty of wet and dirty nappies is all the evidence you need, sounds like you're doing a great job.

As far as expressing goes - if you can find a window to do this when your bubba is a month old you're doing well! I wouldnt put too much pressure on yourself though, you can have all on just feeding your LO. You tend to get more milk expressing while LO is feeding on the other breast, or after the first feed in the morning. But if you try and build up a freezer supply now you could be risking engorgement. Id let your body get used to what your lo needs in these first few weeks if you can - unless its very important for you to have the freezer supply now.

Hope this has been helpful, sounds like you are doing a fantastic job xx

Some excellent advice here - just wanted to add that 4wks is very young to be having a bottle and the problem with the latch and coming on and off could be due to a bit of nipple confusion. Persevere without the bottles and she'll get the hang of it again quickly.

Another possibility is that she's struggling to cope with a fast milk-down (my DS has this problem at the moment) but you'd know about it because she'd be sprayed in the face with milk when she came off and you'd both end up soaked!

They can also struggle to stay latched when your breasts are really full. Your breasts are still sorting themselves out at this stage and if they've just increased your supply this could be the issue.

Just keep feeding and keep expressing to a minimum and it'll sort itself out!

Mrs B xxx

PS.
Chuck Gina in the bin (personally I just can't accept any advice and especially BF advice from someone who has never actually BF or had a baby!)and get this one instead...

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Food-Love-Formula-Successful-Breastfeeding/dp/0954930959/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330240409&sr=1-1

... it's fantastic and always answers all my BF questions!

Hi ladies,

Thanks so much for your advice, answers and kind words. The
last couple of days have been much better I think. I spoke to the health visitor today and feel reassured as she now weighs 10lb 9.5ozs. HV also reckons she's using me as comfort alot of the time and to get herself off to sleep.
I was chatting to my hubby last night and we dont think she has never settled herself, only in the car, pram or she falls asleep on hubbys shoulder or on my boob! At night we lie in bed and she feeds so we kinda co sleep, but if I wake up and shes asleep I put her back into her own bed as hubby is a heavy sleeper!

I dont think it was nipple confusion monkey nuts as she started this behaviour before I offered her the bottle! Yeh I do have fast let down as she does get sprayed in the face and she gets soaked! Thanks for the link to the book.... Im gonna go buy it now! Gina Ford is in the recycling!! :lol:

Another couple of questions.... hope you dont mind.
How long should I let her feed on one side before swapping? I in the evenings when shes cluster feeding I keep her on the same breast for 2-3 feeds as if not I find she has greenish nappies through the night.

A freezer supply isnt important I just thought while I seem to have lots of milk it'd b worth it. When is the right time to begin expressing? Also can the milk be kept in the fridge for a length of time before being frozen?

Thanks again ladies!

xxx

You're doing the right thing by feeding off the same side a few feeds to make sure she gets the hind milk. I do this with my DS but it really varies from day to day - you just get a feel for when they've done with one side and then swap to the other for the next feed.
As long as her poo is yellow you're getting it right!

I'm not an expert on expressing but I would wait until your supply calms down otherwise you'll produce more and it won't help your fast let-down. But if you need to express so you can leave your baby then do it after a feed.
According to the information from my midwife you can store it for 5 days before freezing but I'm not very comfortable with this as it seems a long time, so I won't leave it longer than 3 days.
Remember you can add to it, so if you don't get a whole feed in one sitting you can keep expressing throughout the day and add to the same bottle in the fridge.

Don't worry about stocking up the freezer, the composition of your milk changes to meet your babies needs and while it won't do any harm giving milk you've expressed now in a month's time, it's just not as good as expressing it freshly.

Glad things are improving for you both.

Mrs B xxx