It is again providing people who refuse to work with another incentive to continue in the same way!

its certainly touched a nerve with people! just shows how different we all are.x

This is such an interesting if not slightly heated subject, I personally have always worked exept for an 8 month period of being pregnant and being made redundant and waiting till someone would give a 18year old with a child a chance at a job, managed to work my way up as a single parent and luckily with the help of supportive parents (for free childcare) and working families tax credit for childcare on the days my Mum worked I struggled through the first couple of years but eventually I was in a position to buy us our own house and move out of rented and I feel that I have taught my son invaluble lessons that if I had stayed at home I would not have been able to do. Just because I got myself in a ruddy pickle and was a single parent didnt mean I should be able to carry on as if I had a partner earning a wage the fact is I had chosen (?) and gotten myself into a corner where I needed to be Mummy and Daddy which meant working to support us and teaching him nothing comes for free, I am now the proud Mum to a 10 year old who has an appreciation of money beyond most 16 year olds comprehension.

I dont believe its our right to stay on benifits because we have children we should have thought about that before starting a family and if it was accidental we should work to make the best of a difficult situation, but I also believe each to there own, I know people who have kids and claim benifits and say they should be able to stay at home and care for there children which is up to them it would be a really boring world if we all had the same view. I wouldnt fall out with someone because they dont share my point of view, that would make it a dictatorship.

Well done jmp,i think you've just proved a very good point that your life and your children's life is what you choose to make of it. You decided you wanted to provide a good life for you and your child by pulling your finger out and working for a living, when you could've done what many others in your situation would have done and not bloody bothered! I think you're a great example, you should be proud of yourself xxx

here here LOL!!! well said hun xxx

Im a stay at home mum but was working before i fell pregnant, and intend to go back to work when LO goes to nursery, Just now i have to stay at home with him as hes not very well and has a skin condition, but just because i claim benefits doesnt mean i want to or that i enjoy it, i wish i could go out to work just to have that little bit of freedom and normality as before, yes i do live in a house and get my rent paid for me atm but i do pay council tax at £100 a month i dont under stand how people get that paid for them, im a single parent, with 2 children, i scrimped and saved the best i could to get things for my flat when i moved in last june, most of it is second hand but still in good nick, it people who are on benefits with kids who go out and spend it all on drink and drungs and dont bother about there kids thats what get up my nose... they money is ment to be for the kids to live on not to feed peoples habbits, yeah i stand up for all those who are on benefis and do a hell of a good job of bringing up there kids but where i come from there a hell of a lot of people who just pop kids out to get some money and there kids sit there in a hash filled room with snotty noses, dirty clothes and a nappy that theyve had on for 2 days, thats not on! get a grip to them!
soz just lil rant, i am 18 and do my best to bring up my kids, its not easy when 1 is permanantly not well and you have to go back and forward to the hospital every other day, no one to watch them even for that odd 5 mins you need to yourself, i do evrything for my kids with never a break, i am on benefits, and i am greatful to those who pay taxes so that i can be on benefits to stay at home and look after my kids, but ill be the one paying taxes soon enough and all the money that i had on benefits will get paid back in taxes and 'ill be the fool payin for some one else to sit on the ar**es and so bugger all' as most of you put it.

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I don't think mum2,24 was being 'harsh' She asked you ''why is it the people that claim benefit annoy you so much? should it not be the government for the ridiculous system they have?

Also ''the goverment do give out jsa to easy''

Did you miss S.Y's post? Why do you think it is soo easy? If you honestly believe it is sooo easy then why not get your DH to stop working start claiming and then let us all know how you get on

And that's the point of SSMG that families, single mums, single dads ect on low incomes or benefits recieve it, it goes to the 'needy' as you put it.

I personally am very proud to have the system we do have if we ever again fall on hard times I know help is there **it may be p!ss poor but it's there** where as for example America don't have such a good system. This also includes our NHS it might be awful at times but it's 'free' in the sense we don't have an almighty bill for giving bith. Is it £3000 in France to give birth now? That's alot of money!

And yes we all know people abuse the system but that is down to the goverment to asses and sort out-but then again how many genuine people would be affected?

Also with regards to the 15yr old mother why not? She's 15 not an adult in the eye's of the law so yes she is entilted to it. She isn't entilted to the national wage how would she honestly support a child working??

Lisabby you can claim council tax through your local council they should hand the forms out with HB forms also have you claimed DLA for you lo? It pays for you lo & you to get to and from hospital it pays for the up keep of their care as in equipment you may need such as special matteress for your lo because of their skin ect

Yeah i did get forms for council taxi with my housing beneftt form, but i still have to pay £100 a month council tax, i dont know why, I dont know what DLA is so no havent claimed, yeah i was thinking about matresses, as ive had to go out and by him lots of new cotton clothes as evrything was pollyester or what ever evrything is now, cost a fortune just getting new vest and babygrows and all the rest of the gear lol, bed sheets and covers, ill look in to that DLA though thanks xx

re;joanne&broode,what a silly thing to say,let my oh stop working and claim benifits he would have a heart attack he is very anti benifit as he works 70hrs per week!! as to the 15yrs old girl?? she has only had a baby so she can get everything paid for,and shes not backwards in coming forwards and admitting that ,that is what she said! how do you think it makes all the hard working people feel to know that there are people out there like that its discracefull! that is my point trouble is so many people think the same as me but never dare say it.....my brother and sil have told the social that they have split up so they can get housing benifit! ctax paid it makes me sick!

i have worked since i was 16 i am now 40, the last few years i only worked 3 days a week and pay £280 a month childcare for youngest, eldest is at nursery school, however i was made redundant recently and enquired about what benefits i would be entitled to as i have never claimed anything before, i was told i was not entitled to anything as my oh works and he could provide for us, i do not begrudge anyone benefits but why when i have paid NI and tax for 24 years i can't claim anything.

I think Joanne&Brood has a really good point. The system we have may not be perfect, their may be an awful lot of people who abuse it, but at least the help is there when we need it. I don't thing that for one minute she seriously meant for your oh to give up work, prettygirl, I think she was just making a point. Personally I don't have a problem with the 15 year old with the nice pram, she is entitled to the money and at least she spent it on something for the baby, not drugs or alcohol! She may have got pregnant for the benefits but it's not like having a baby to look after is easy, whether she likes it or not she will be responsible for it for the rest of her life.

that is some of my points exactly waylor12! we pay NI but when it comes down to it we dont get a penny its very wrong.

Our system is crap in most ways, we should all protest out side gordon browns house, hundreds of mums with screeming kids and buggys can u see his face! HAHA! I think its rediculous your not intitled to anything waylor12! They have stupid cut off point if your OH works so many hours then hes on enough to support u all, what a load of rubbish!

Well said Joanne.

I do think that some people abuse the system and it seems to be so easy for the ones who dont really need benefits but the people who are actually honest about it get bugger all. Im not on benefits now but I was on income support when I was pregnant and got £46 a week, I was actually living with my mum but I would have got that even if I was living on my own. Yes if I was on my own I would've got healthy start vouchers and housing benefit but still, £46 a week is nothing to live on, and I did get the maternity grant but again, £500 is not much really, considering the cost of a pram, cot, clothes, toys, nappies etc.

Its the people that abuse the system that I dont like, not the people who genuinely need the money. I do think that single parents should go back into work once their kids are in school, but then I'm not a single parent so I cant really judge those who don't - we all have our own reasons...

i think most people on here are really of the same view that if you need the benefits you should claim for them. its the people who in the position to work and just dont bother. if you have good reason to claim benefits then why shouldnt you.

with the girl at 15. as bedhead said at least she has used the money to buy something for her baby. i know of a couple who spent it on games and cd's. she may have had the baby just to get benefits but in few months time she will realise that its not as easy as that and that it comes with a lot more responsabilty. maybe if childcare wasnt so expensive im lucky that family have my lo) then more people would work.

I know loads of people who say they would be worse off if they went to work as they would have to pay rent/Council tax.

I work for a Housing Association and come into contact with this all the time. I have just had my first child at the age of 37 and have had to sell my home as baby's Dad walked out on us when I was 5 months pregnant. Apparently I earn too much to claim Working Tax Credit and am entitled to less than £1 a day Child Tax Credit. I can't claim the Childcare costs back as the registered Childminder I use is a relative (Who I DO pay!!)!

As a result I am having to live on the small amount of money I made from the sale of the house which annoys me as I wanted to use it as a deposit on a place for baby and me in about a years time.

Meanwhile my next door neighbours stand in the garden of their £500 per month to rent house bragging about how they get this benefit and that. They have cats, dogs, rabbits and 3 kids, are always coming back laden with shopping bags, throwing BBQ's and having nights out. And then I hear the woman tell her brother that she's not going to let on that she's started working part time cos they'll lose out on an extra £5k a year.

I reckon what the Government should do is say 'OK, as far as we are concerned the minimum wage is X amount. From now on benefits will be the equivalent of 40 X that amount... the equivalent of a 40 hr working week. But you pay your own rent, council tax etc'

Watch how many people suddenly find jobs then!!!

i also think its the system thats wrong, people who know the 'tricks of the trade' do very well whilst genuine honest people tend to suffer, there need tgo be strict follow ups and checks on people. it wont harm the honest but may well give the kick that others need. we live in a society where the poor get everything, thestupidly rich dont need anything, and the middle work for both sides. its like old peoples homes the poor get to go free and the ones that worked all their lives to own homes have to sell them to pay. whats the point aside from pride? someone somewhere needs to sit down and rethink the system.
however like joanne&brood said we are lucky in other ways although nhs dont always get it right they are there for us, i know of a relative in egypt whose epileptic girl having a fit was sent away from the hospital as mother didnt have her purse on her when she ran out the door at a sign of a fit! with good comes bad and vice versa

FAO Lisabby
Ask them if your not sure as to why your still paying if they have it wrong and your entiltled to help then they can correct it and you can claim your money back off them I think you can only claim 3 months back-dated but it's better than nothing :)
And the DLA is dissability living allowance it's hard to get as in you may have to appeal the best thing is to get your GP or consultant to do a report to send in with the forms but it's fantastic helping hand for parents and adults that need it.

prettygirl, I don't think it was a ''silly thing to say'' at all ;) actually I think if you really think it is so easy then why not see for yourself instead of assuming it is so easy, plenty of posters on here have already said they have been refused or are stuggaling on the peanuts they are in receiving and yes I am making a point

And yes she is 15 YEARS OLD GIRL NOT AN ADULT on the other hand you are, why let that fact bother and wind you up so much?
Whether you like it or not she has made her bed and lying in it she is using the money on her child and as Bedhead said at least she isn't drinking/doing drugs with the money.
And she again would not be able to earn a wage at the natioanl average she is still classed as a minor a child.
So yes why shouldn't she claim? What else is she suppose to do? Beg, borrow or steal?

''how do you think it makes all the hard working people feel to know that there are people out there like that its discracefull!''

You mean people like me *I work a measly 9hrs aweek for my sanity* and my H2B *who only works 83 hrs a week but is at an advantage as his bed is only 30 steps away from his place of work when he can find it without help pmsl*
How do I feel that a 15 yr old child is claiming for her baby? FANTASTIC we are lucky enough to have this system at least her baby and herself are not straving as many many do around the world and sadly still here, I'd rather see her receive benefits than on the streets with a baby.

With people who abuse the system they are a disgrace to themselves but again down to the goverment and the way the system works sadly it won't change and if it does lets hope it's for the better and to the advantage of those that do need it.

And *if* your brother and sil are claiming fraudulantly then report them if you are so annoyed by it and it makes you feel sick.

''we pay NI but when it comes down to it we dont get a penny its very wrong.''

This is a mis-informed view aswell everytime you go to your GP or hospital you are using 'your NI you pay' it isn't just used on benefits it goes towards the cost of the NHS & SPS also. Which as you guessed I am more than happy to pay as I do get my fair share out of the NHS by my kids an H2B

WOOOOOW what a debate this turned into!!!!!!!

Basically, if ur entitled to it = GOOD
if u abuse system = BAD

I think we all kinda agree on that bit anyway!

Come on mummyx5 you know you want to come to the dark side and join in ;)