ps Mrs S. I remember speaking to a member of my family quite recently about different levels of Downs and I was told that it is believed that there is a type where children have the facial appearance but that it is and have no symptoms. If you think your child is developing fine maybe it is something you can enquire about, However I don't know much about it and I don't know enough to say anymore xjx

Quote:

Quote:

Hi Sharron,

Good luck with your baby I'm sure all will come together in the end. I was going to reply to the comments joanneandbrood made but what's the point! I believe in educating myself and learning through experience which is how many things are learnt throughout life. I didn't sit here and type away to hurt people but to give you a different point of view from my experience and have had everything that I have said picked at and belittled. Yes children with Downs can have a good life with the right support etc. Most children who get put in mainstream school who are severley mentally handicapped do not go into normal classes with children who are at the normal level (I'm not saying it doesn't happen at all). I know a boy with severe autism in mainstream and 90% of the time he has special lessons. It doesn't make a child less disabled being at main stream. I think that in today's society that every woman should be able to choose what they think is best with regards to parenthood. Irregardless of whether they want to have a child, have an abortion or adoption. Maybe I misunderstood what you were saying ie what way do I go... I thought you wanted a collection of people's ideas, thoughts, experiences so you could draw your own conclusions...maybe you were talking about something completely different maybe it's my pregnancy hormones!! Some people are obviously very defensive about such a sensitive subject and I understand. I have many good things I could say about having a child irregardless of disability or not but that wasn't what I was speaking to you about I thought enough people would tell you the positives and lets face it I do type a lot and could probably take up 5 pages or more with my thoughts on pros and cons. No one on here is an expert in the field their just individual's opinions tc xjx

Thank you to Joanneandbrood and Smoochiegal for your responses. It is clear that there are some very strong feelings on this issue, and this debate could rumble on. Far from feeling defensive and/or offended (which initially I thought I might, I must confess), I actually don't feel either - if having George has taught me anything, it is not to give two hoots about what anyone else thinks. The only person's views that we care about are those who are there to care for him - be that family or the medical/teaching professionals that come into contact with him. Maybe this is obvious to the people that we meet, and maybe that is why we have not come up with any of the prejudices that are commonly associated with the syndrome. And, as Joanne said, this is 2009.
Smoochiegal, I agree that none of us know what the future will hold - but then, if we lived our whole life wanting to know what would happen, I don't believe that anything would ever get done. How do we know that a 'normally' developing child will not grow up to develop, for example, mental health issues, which may require them to have the same level of care as a person born with a disability?
All I know is that I have a beautiful little boy, who amazes us every day with what he can do, and how he is developing - and I'm his Mummy for life, be that the next 30 or 60 years - providing I don't kark out before then! :)

Sarah x

I'm sorry but I don't think we have the right to choose who lives or dies like you said? Even though the law thinks so, I think you are heartless and no I don't apoligise for being blunt.

Mrs S I think you have been very gratious in your post. Well done.

Sharron your msg was poigniant with valid points. No one knows what tommorow brings and at the end of the day what others think shouldn't matter.

I think that any subject involving children will always bring passionate points of view to a debate.

Lemon cupcake abortion is a very controversial subject - you have the right to an opinion as much as the next person but you shouldn't really make a sweeping statement about people who have a different view to yours just because you don't agree with it ie calling pro abortionists heartless... you don't know what pushed that individual to that decision there are a no. of factors to consider: underage, finance, ability to cope, finances/security, accidents, lack of education, lack of contraception ie 3rd world countries, rape, bereavement, risk of health to mother or baby, severity of disability.... have you seen what happens in a late abortion I can't begin to imagine the trauma caused! I seriously doubt it is something a woman would go through lightly.

Anyway... abortion is another subject many thanks Sharron for giving me an opportunity to share my thoughts/experiences with you.

Good luck.

xjx

It wasn't a direct reference to abortion, it was more your lack of compassion towards children with special needs and how you feel you have the right not to care for such a child.

Quote:

Now to me Sarah's 'opinions' are much more than that to me in my eyes she has an understanding of his disabilities through him and knowledge through their experiences together as you said further up

'''How do we know that a 'normally' developing child will not grow up to develop, for example, mental health issues, which may require them to have the same level of care as a person born with a disability?'''

This is very intresting to me as not only would someone like that require a level of care but also what about the disabilities that can't be detected during pregnancy such as Autism, Cerebral Palsy and ADHD ect?
And those that you can get through illnesses such as Meningitis where CP can occure? What would you do in that situation?

I hope you stick around Smoochiegal the ladies here are very nice and supportive and you seem very nice yourself I hope your pregnancy is going well hun xx

Hi I am from due in jan 09 and pregnancy. I came onto this board as I like to read other people experiences. I am due my second baby in jan 09. Like most other parents me and my husband have talked about what tests we would like, the possible outcomes ect. anyway we are having the NT scan at 12 weeks and said that depending on results we would decide from there what to do but one thing we are set on is that we will have this baby regardless if the baby were to have downs or not. it would be a case of being as informed as possible. This is our baby, a very wanted child and already loved so much. I am only 24 and I cared for a gentleman with downs for 5 years everyday of the 5 years, I would help him shower, make meals, get to places,have a social life and learn to talk to people using simple language and I loved every minute of it and would go back in a heartbeat. I would not see it as a chore to help anyone that needed it and espcially not my own child. with regards to the post who said about being hit or headbutted by a 40 year old with downs, i think who ever has experienced this needs to seek help from the many health professionals who are there to support you and help you. (unless of course that was said to try and scare people!)
anyway I have been truely inspried by the vast marjority of you and although it has made me sad to think how much I miss the man I helped look after I hope anyone who reads this will see and understand how much of a blessing a child is to have, regardless of having downs.

xx

Being in the situation myself where I have to have CVS today (its like an amnio but earlier in pregnancy) I do understand both sides of this argument. The thing is its not as black and white as it seems from the outside or from within the situation. I thought it would be easy for me to terminate if there was something genetically wrong with my baby but honestly its the hardest descision I will ever have to make and I feel like a murderer making the descision. I am pro choice I believe women should be able to have an abortion if they wish but I really wanted this baby and now I have to face the fact if the results of my CVS come back with a positive result for an untreatable genetic problem then I am in a siutuation where I feel I would have no choice but to terminate.

I too agree that its all fun and games when they are babies but as adults these people can be aggressive and very strong and I can not stand the idea of having to put my child in a home when I am 70 and can no longer care for them it would be a fate worse than death in my book. Sitting around like a vege when clearly from what has been said here these people are not is just cruel. Plus other children can be so cruel and I was bullied badly enough and I was a normal kid, I can't imagine what a disabled/special needs child would have to go through. There were times when I was being bullied I felt like I would rather be dead I can't imagine how a special needs child feels but it must be devistating. At the end of the day I have two other children to care for and having a disabled child just would not be an option. In dreamland I could totally just ignore any result I got and have this baby no matter what but I don't live in the land of lollypops and fairytales I live in the real world where I have two children on this Earth right now who need me and would not get the time and attention they deserve if all my time is taken up with a disabled child. Its a very sad situation and I am miserable about it but its what I personally have to do.

Still I am in awe of mums that can take are of special needs kids and they are such special children which is what makes me feel bad about my descision. Good luck to you all and I do see both sides of this very clearly.

Oh by the way I would ask what percentage chance 1 in 20 is I mean that doesn't seem too bad you have 19 chances your baby is fine. I have a 90% chance there is a problem with my baby and that makes sense to me there is not much chance things are right, but 1 in 20 tells me nothing. See if you can get a percentage somehow, it will help with your descisions better.

Libranaster....... Wow! So really instead of having my wonderful, strongwilled, happy to give everything a go despite his disabilities I should have just got rid of him sharpish? Everyone gets bullied as you said and I hope my son doesn't but at the same time if he is I hope that I do a good enough job at raising him to know himself that he is just as good, if not better than these ignorant idiots and just get on with it! My son is my world and yes I wouldn't wish him to have the problems he had but I would never have even considered terminating him just because he's not perfect ( I didn't know btw) because to me he is perfect in every possible way and he is my beautiful little boy!

waiting4baby if I was the only one this would effect personally I probably would be more inclined to consider keeping this baby. Seriosuly its not about the baby not being perfect. For starters my partner very strongly does not feel he can handle a disabled child and I suffer from depression and anxiety probelms that I have to deal with every day. Also my son has learning delays and needs alot of attention that he wont be able to get if he is trying to compete with another special needs child that may need even more care than he does. If I have difficulty coping at times with my son who just has learning delays could you imagine me trying to juggle a disabled child? Believe me its probably more abolut me not being perfect than this child. It is an Earth shattering descision but I am not going to force my partner to go through this.

I do hope you can give son the tools and skills to have enough self esteem to ignore bullies and ignorant children and adults. I have had my son in special needs programs before kinder to help him get up to speed for school and have spent time with special needs kids so I am not making a descision from ignorance or taking it lightly. To be honest to be attacked when I am so raw about it is upsetting and just as upsetting as you thinking I was saying you should have gotten rid of your child. I don;t want to terminate my pregnancy but I am not the only one in my family.

I am not looking for a fight but it is a individual descision made on the factors of how people's individual family dynamic goes and besides its not just down syndrome I am talkiing about some results that could come back from this test could mean my child wont even live a year after birth anyway and would have failing organs and be so brain damaged it couldn't feed itself or anything. I am not saying children with slight disabilities should be killed off like vermin but if your child might die within a year anyway and its going to be the most painful year of its life and if the child lives past that it faces a future as a pratical vegetable honestly as a parent I need to be merciful. I wouldn't want that for myself I have told my family if I am going to wake up brain damaged after an accident you pull the plug so if I wouldn't want it for myself how can I expect to put someone else through it that is my opinion.

I expect your son is a gorgeous little boy and I am glad he is not letting whatever diagnosis he has had stop him from having a go and putting in 100% of himself. Obviously you are an awsome mum who has given him the courage to do that.

What I individually want in my situation I am afraid only counts for a part fo the descision here and I am very conflicted thus why I have been coming here I am hoping with a more educated insight into parenting children with different disabilities I can make an informed descision as to whether to terminate as I think personally my partner is being too black and white about it. I mean the baby was moving about on the scan like any nomral child so I am wondering how disabled this child is really gonna be. I mean the scans look normal besides this 6mm NT gap. I probably should make a topic for myself so I can get some feedback about what mum's on here think about it too because its very hard to see my unborn child as disabled/special needs if its doing all the right things in the womb.

By the way waiting4baby I bet you would not have terminated if you knew before your son was born anyway atleast by the sounds of it you wouldn't have. Some people have been very immovable on their opinion in this I realise and I am still conflicted about whether I will teminate. Since I can see both sides here its not an easy descision for me nor should it be. Although I do think every individual should be able to make their choice I also have to say people who have not been in the situation where they know they are going to have a disabled or special needs baby while pregnant do talk about it like it is so easy just to off your baby. I used to think that too that it was an easy descision but its not. No test can tell you how disabled your baby is going to be by their condition. They may be like waiting4baby's son and well enough to fight the odds and tell the doctor to shove his diagnosis where the sun don't shine. When it comes to downs kids the severity of the illnesses they may have or their mental handicapp can vary too much for terminating to be an easy descision. I think downs is the most nasty illness in that way as some people's life expectancies get cut short by it and some people can't control their emotions or reactions but others can and you just don't know what your child will be like. Its a real gamble but I do think people's descisions need to be respected on both sides. Its very easy for someone with one of these beautiful kids to say well how could you terminate and its also so easy for someone who has never even had a chance of having a downs baby to say oh well we will just execute them for coming out of the mold wonky.

I have to say though it is good to see other people who feel as strongly about their opinions as me. Waiting4baby I really hope you don't think I meant you should never have had your son. There was no way to know my son would have the learning delays he has and I would love him if he had of come out with four arms and a tail it does upset me to think you would think I meant that. You are obvuiously a strong mum and a good mum who loves her son.

I've reread what you and I wrote and I am really sorry you took it as an attack, I focused on a small point you wrote and although I do believe bullying shouldn't be a factor in a decision I'm sorry I came across as picking on you. I don't agree with abortion but at the same time am well aware that Boone has the right to judge a persons decision as you really can't say what you would do until in such a position! I certainly hope I never have to find out and know I am very lucky that in the scheme of things my son isn't that bad at all.
I would love to say I'm doing a brilliant job but my son is only 18mths and unawre he is not 'normal' so only time will tell how well be copes. He is visually impaired although the cause and diagnosis are still unknown and more things are cropping up as he fails to meet milestones.
I am sorry again, I also don't want to pick a fight, I am wriiting this on a phone so if again I have come accross badly/blunt please understand it's not my intention.
With regards to your situation I wish you all the best and as said have no right to judge and please make sure you don't let others judgements effect you as it will only make it harder. Take care

I just hoped you didn't take what I said the wrong way waiting4baby since in my opinion some people have been a little cold about the subject of keeping a special needs baby. I personally don't believe in abortions after 12 weeks and this is where my descision gets hard because it will probably be after 12 weeks before I get all my results and it does seem wrong and hard. I am really over sensitive right now so I can see how I would take what you said the wrong way. I am taking what veryone says the wrong way right now its so tough. Thankyou for your advice I am trying not to let others judgements effect me the one paerson I can't ignore is my partner because its his baby too and his judgements can be quite upsetting. He just doesn't understand and thats hard he said today to me that I shouldn't have been up half the night worrying something that is out of my control. ARG! doesn't he get that terminating this pregnancy means I am controlling whether me baby lives or dies. It is in my control! I am so frustrated and upset. I might have the results to my test tomorrow and I am freaking out. I am going to be an emotional nut case until then.

I read this post with great interest as well. I hope to concieve our 2nd child next year when I'll be 36 and I'm all to aware of the problems us "old ladies" could possibly have.

I'm sure there are many people who will disagree with me but I believe God gives us "special" children for a special reason that will be realized sooner or later in our lives. Downs Syndrome children are created perfectly and will add extra stress and anxiety into our lives but at the same time will also add a special joy to our lives that could not possibly come from a "normal" child.

Maybe I'm niave but honestly, if I fell preg with a downs baby, its our child to love.

Mrs. S - George is handsome! He walked before my dd did - she was 14.5 months!

Hee hee, I only wish he was walking properly!!! Is walking holding onto hands, too blooming lazy (and that's the boy in him, not the Down's!!) to do it himself!
Am glad that you have such a positive attitude - you could be completely morose and depressed if it did happen to you, but that's not going to help anyone, least of all your ickle one. Well that's how we see it anyway!! And yes you do end up spending hours of your life searching for parking spaces at the hospital, and going for appt after appt, but its so worth it to see the progress they make against the odds. And its opened up our social life no end!!
Let us know how you get on when you are lucky enough to fall pregnant again - and maybe you will get to join this very special club!!

Mrs S x

i gave birth on 30/4/09 to a bot who has downs and heart problems, the fact that he had downs didnt matter as he nearly died. he is a beautiful little boy now