hiya,i no this may rub some people up the wrong way but i was wondering what other people thought about people who claim benifits just so they can stay at home and have babys? its a sore subject i no,but its hard when you or your oh works all hours godsends and pays £120 a WEEK! in tax so other lazy ***** can stay and claim benifits! any veiws i cant be the only person it makes mad!???x

I do claim benefits not on the fact because i want to sit at home and make babies! I am a single mum and at the moment i am staying home to bring up my son. Once always worked since i was 16 and always paid my tax and NI so i should be entitled to.

you know your self that having kids you cant just sit at home and do nothing its like having a full time job, exept you dont get days off and its a 24 hour job, i stay at home but only get working family tax as my husband has 2 jobs so i can stay at home and bring my daughter up, if i women has a kid under the age of 3 i think the have every right it stay at home and look after they kid weather the claming benfits or not, when they kid is in full time school i do think that in some ways the should go back to work, xxx

totally agree!

I have a 2 year old and i work 3 days a week, 11 hour days so that i can work and not pay to much child care (£280 a month though) i completly agree that some people take it to the extreme, but i think everyone is individual and I for one am ttc my second and will be physically unable to work and pay childcare for 2 children, so I wont be working for atleast 2 years whilst and im going to go to colleage and do a nursery nurse NVQ, but ive been working since i was 16 and agree that i have paid my fair share of tax so am now entitled!!!! x

I don't work, oh fortunately earns enough to support us without me having to, good job really because my salary wouldn't have covered child care! It does wind me up when people are taking the piss claiming benefits but I think most of the time the people on them genuinely need the help. I like to think that if circumstances were to change we would get the help we needed. Don't forget as well that taxes don't just pay for benefits! I'm guessing that pretty much all of us had NHS maternity care, most of us will use state schools, we drive on public roads etc etc, the money has to come from somewhere!
xx

me and hubby both work full time and hubby pays in tax about half of my wage! i am fortunate enough to finish at lunchtime but i have to work 13 out of 14 days a fortnight.i have a friend and she doesnt work and neither does her husband,they claim well over £500 a month in benefits,have council tax paid and their rent paid on a 2 bedroom 2 bathroom new build and they maon about having no money and tell me im rubbing it in their faces when we buy something new! this is what annoys me because we work really hard (i know stay at home parents do too as i was one for daughters first year) and i think they should be the last to comment on what we spend our wages on!
i think if you are a couple then at least one of you should work or share work and both go part time but if you are a single parent it is a different ball game altogether. i have another friend who is a single mum and she does avon and a paper round to earn some extra cah and can take her lo with her which i thought was a good idea.
thing is the government make it too easy to claim now. anyway rant over,lol. end point is- each to their own,regardless of how many people claim our taxes wont go down anyway!

The thing is....ive just been on another forum site and there are people on there that say they enjoy not working,staying at home being lazy and claiming every benifit under the sun and if were foolish enough to pay for them to do that and work then more fool us....well as you can imagine this really got my back up!i am a sahm my oh works really hard to provide for me and the lo all i get is a bit of poxy tax credits im not saying that its all people that claim benifits but the ones who do and rub it in your face.....discracefull "!

that is disgusting, to be honest though the goverment need to make it so that, if there is a couple then atleast one of them should work or do something so we can get more help with childcare cost, that sort of thing, but i agree some people take the absolute piss!!!

Both me and my Oh work and to be honest it really annoys me when people who claim benefits are more than capable to work. I have no problem with people who are entitled to these benefits. I am trying to cut my hours from 36 to 32 1/2 hours a week before I return in 2 weeks time. I will be down money but I don't get it made up anywhere else i.e child tax credit or working tax credit. My husband works 40 hours a week and his wages are really basic. We are not even entitled to working tax credit as we apparently earn enough and over the threshold. It annoys me that we work so hard for our money and have to pay for everything and other people sitting on their A**es and get everything paid for them and are still better off than us every month. My SIL is like this and it annoys me. She has 2 children aged 15 and 6 and her and her husband are more than able to work but they would rather live off benefits.

Sorry if I offended anyone it is not intended. I just hate the fact that I work so hard and get nothing for it. Though for my self respect I would rather work and earn money than expecting the Government to keep me.

hi just wanted to say i claimed benifits 3mths after my daughter was born as the place i worked decided i wasnt able to have mat pay off them even though i was working over 16hr wk and they had told me i could get it twice so i had no other choice as i was a single mum at the time and had to pay the bills some how im lucky now as i found a men man who is happy to work so i can stay at home with my daughter and we r trying for another baby and i will be staying at home atleast till the next baby is 3

i dont think it is wrong to claim benefits in the right circumstances but if both people are capable of work and neither are interested then im sorry but its just lazy. my oh works fulltime & overtime and i work parttime to keep our house. as i said i dont have a problem with people claiming benefits when they need then afterall thats what they are there for but there are too many people in this country who just take the p***.

It seems that everyone on here has the same opinion.

"If you genuinly need it, then claim it. But if you are physically able to provide for your family why should you be able to sit on your bum and do nothing?"

This subject really annoys me. My brother is 30 years old and hasn't worked for 4 years (all that time claiming job seekers allowence) He lives in a house my mum owns and pays nothing towards his bill, my mum pays them all. This really annoys me as my oh works every hour god sends to provide for his family and i still work regardless of having a 21 month old toddler and being 36 weeks pregnant! and we can not claim anything. I had this out with my brother and his reply was "he wont work for minimum wage" well im sorry but its tough you should have to. My oh earns a good wage because he trained on crap wages for 5 years and pays £300 in tax every week!
I understand that some people have to claim benefits, same as i would have to do if me and my oh split up, as i couldnt work, but there is way too many people claiming when they dont need to and the sad thing about it is, everyone who claims benefits then gets tied with the same brush.
The worst thing is all the people doing this, are basically sitting back laughing at all us who go out to work and pay are taxes and were the ones who will be getting into debt to pay for our houses ect, while they get it all handed to them on a plate.
sorry rant over lol

i would just like to point out that the benefits the unemployed get are ridiculously low, you try living off £45/week and you'd not think it was so easy! o.k you'd get your rent and council tax paid for you but what about gas/electric, phone, t.v license, FOOD, (run a car?). the basic child tax credit is about £40, so thats £85 per week for EVERYTHING....
easy life????

basic child tax credit is £18.81 a week, thats all I'm entitled to for having a baby.

We will be returning to live in England in the next 2-3 months (long story but also necessary) and will be claiming tax credits etc but only because the job my husband will be returning to pays just about minimum for an interim period until he can progress further. I am currently 18wks so will not be working just yet but have already said that I will look for a part-time job next year to help out. Our eldest 2 will are full-time schoolers, our 3rd will be part-time pre-school which'll leave no4 & 5 at home pretty much all the time so am thinking of something I can do in the evenings as childcare will be astronomical!!

I'm not ashamed to claim what we are entitled to - my dh has worked for 24 years (from age 16) and I've done my bit (inbetween babies hehe) but do agree, it's those that rub it in and who can't be bothered to work that get my back up.

I went out yesterday and saw someone i new,she was with a girl who was about 15! with a baby in a nice swanky pushchair"nice pram"i said she replied"thanks i got it with my 500 ssmgrant i said oh i couldnt get that coz my oh earns to much,she said"i claim every benifit going it sure beats working"!!!! i had such a job to hold my tongue and just said its alright for some,i was really really mad at her and the fact that i didnt say anything else! i have nothing agaist young mums but no wonder they are sometimes tarnished with the same brush and yes it could of been someone in there 20s 30s so on but i was very mad!x

mumto2,24

like we said if you are unemployed and have no choice to be, then by all means you should get enough to live on, but if you can work then why shouldnt you?
I pay over £1500 in bills a month in bills alone to pay for my house and we work for every penny for it. Do you think that cause we work we all have lots of money left over? No we dont every penny goes to pay for food, bills and to clothe our children.

i'm one of those people that doesn't earn very much but earns too much to get any help. when i go back to work i'll be earning between 6 - 7.50 an hour but childcare for 2 boys will cost £6. fortunatley the shifts i work don't always coincide with when hubby is working so i don't always have to pay for childcare. i don't get help because my husbands income is just enough that our joint income doesn't qualify us for help.
there is no way i could afford to stay at home on just my hubbys salary.
when i went on maternity leave the first time i was really disappointed with the lack of help i got.
i have worked all my life and paid my taxes and like some have said some people are able to stay at home not having ever contributed anything and have many things paid for them. i went back to work when my lo was 4 months because we just couldn't afford our bills.
I think people should get help to stay at home and look after their children - i would stay at home to look after mine if i could afford to or if i got help.
the government spend a lot of money paying for childcare - why can't they pay me to stay home and look after my own child!
if you are a single parent it must be impossible to negotiate your way round working and childcare - its hard enough with a partner. not just that but what about when your child is sick or on school holidays?!
speckle - i agree -ALL our money is gone (on bills) within the first week of the month and we have to use credit cards to pay for petrol and food. then of course the next month we start in the negative and our debts get bigger. I've not long had my second son and will have to go back to work soon

sorry - that turned into a bit of a ramble round the houses but basically yes people should get help but there are always going to be those that deserve it that may or may not get help. then there are those that completely take advantage!!

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oh i do understand that speckle i just don't like that pretty girl seems to think that people on benefit sit on their **** and get everything handed to them.

[quote]prettygirl

I went out yesterday and saw someone i new,she was with a girl who was about 15! with a baby in a nice swanky pushchair"nice pram"i said she replied"thanks i got it with my 500 ssmgrant [quote]

i'm sorry but if she qualifies for these benefits why shouldn't she buy something nice for the baby???
why is it the people that claim benefit annoy you so much? should it not be the government for the ridiculous system they have?

I agree with you Mum2 2,24. It's the governments system thats to blame. I have been on Jobseekers before (which was ridiculous as I was 6 months pregnant and no one would give me a job) and when I went to sign on, no one ever even asked me what I had done to find a job, all they said was "Have you looked for a job?" I said yes (I actually had, I wasnt lying) and they signed my book & that was it. I don't see how you can blame some people for taking all they can get, when they get it soooo easily. Benefits are an absolute pittance as well so I don't think it is an "easy life" so to speak...The people who are getting a fortune off benefits are playing the system by pretending to be single or working whilst they are signing on; the people who are honest are getting practically nothing. My oh works and I dont get any benefits now except child tax credits (when I apply for them!) and child benefit. But if I was a single mum then yes I would claim benefits because I'd want to be at home for my son and because I would never get a qualified job so I couldnt afford childcare. I think the governments system is what makes people so reluctant to get a job cos its soooo easy to get JSA. My OH was on JSA and not even looking for a job for 3 years. He was 16 at the time and this was before I met him, now he has been working fulltime for 3 years but it just shows how easy it is to sign on x

My partner works full time and earns a tidy wage and i work part time and the moneys ok. I have no problem with people who genuinely need benefits because they can't work, whether it be through disability or no available childcare etc. However friends of mine who are single mothers have stayed at home to bring up their kids and have been able to claim income support etc. I would love to be able to stay home to look after my babies ( aged 2 and 10 months) but as my partner works,i would therefore be entitled to nothing, which would make mortgage, bills etc impossible. I do believe that any mother who chooses to stay at home to care for her children herself should be entitled to the same, regardless of whether their partner earns or not. Its almost like the people who put the most in get the least out and vice versa. I also think that when the kids go to school full time then there is plenty of opportunity for the mums to work during school hours, as there are plenty of flexible hours available, so at this stage staying at home to look after the kids (when theyre actually cared for for free 6 hours a day) is no longer a valid reason for not working.Just my personal opinion x

now now mumto2,24 no need to be harsh we are mearly pointing out that some people rub it in your face! i am a sahm i dont work but i dont claim benifits either,its the people that could work but dont and get everything paid for that gets my goat! and wouldnt it be nice if we all got the ssmg, but no coz it goes to the needy ,well i bloody needed it too!

It is definitely the system that fails ultimately - the basic principles (in theory) are good but in practice, it stinks lol When I was first pg, that ssmg was graded so that even if ur family income was slightly above average, you still got something. That yr I got £200 of a possible £300 but the full £300 with my 2nd as my dh was not working due to a spinal injury meaning we were on disability benefits at the time. Now it's all changed and seems to be 'all or nothing' which I personally think is wrong.

I do also agree that once kids are in school there's no real reason to stop a mum (or sah-dad) to get a part-time job! Plenty of places will adapt a working role around school time now-a-days. I myself will be looking for work in Feb/March (bub's will be 3-4months by then) in somewhere like Tesco's as I can go for evening work, tying in with when my dh will be home to have the kids. A friend of mine works for Eon (power people) in the call centre and does a cpl of evenings and some weekends so that she doesn't have to fork out for childcare. There are options out there if people bother to look and I think what prettygirl is getting at is the audacity of those that just can't be bothered.

I totally agree with mummyx5, like she says there is lots of oppertunity for people to work these days. Obviously its a Different situation if your a single parent or physically unable to work. I went back to work when my son was 9 weeks old, simply because we couldnt afford to pay all the bills ect on just my oh wage. I went from being a supervisor of a very high profile fine dining restaurant, to working 3 nights a week in a brewers fair just so the hours would suit and fit around my oh working hours.
My best friend has 2 children, one at school and one in full time nursery (which gov pays for) She lives with her oh (who earns very good wages) but doesnt declare that hes there so gets basically everything paid for her. Shes my best friend of 8 years but it disgusts me what she does!
Then theres my mum, who is 49 yo, always work and has now got nuropathy (meaning she cant walk) and is confined to a wheelchair, but the goverrnment recently sent her a letter saying she need to attend a back to work meeting or her benefits are stopping (she get £45 pw and has been claiming it for 6 weeks) Out benefit system stinks x x

That is sick hun - this government really does need a kick up the ****!! I know that that sort of letter is a bog standard one that the computer spits out but it's still not nice. Doesn't your mum claim disability allowance or such-like????

"I think the governments system is what makes people so reluctant to get a job cos its soooo easy to get JSA. "

Sorry but no it bloody well isnt!!!!!

I was self employed running my own pub before i got pregnant - it was my pub only myself worked there. So you can imagine that I can no longer throw/shift 9gallon barrels around when preg(real ale pub), but the pub didnt take enough money to employ someone to do it for me(i didnt even have a wage), so i had to sell up (and to be honest the money i got back just about covered the debts the pub racked up).

I paid a vast amount of NI contributions while self employed, and went to see if i could claim anything shortly after moving in with my OH. I was entitled to NOTHING!!!! Absolutely bugger all, and all because i had been self employed. So i paid lots of money to be told I'd basically pissed it up the wall.
So no, it is not bloody easy to sign on!
I applied for 28 jobs in the first week after selling up, and because legally i had to tell them I was preg (health and bloody safety issues) not one of them would take me on. (but i couldnt prove discrimination). The second week i applied for a further 12 jobs - went in for my appointment at the job centre (which i was told to do or my benefits would stop - even tho i wasnt being paid them!) and I was shouted at for applying for TOO many jobs!!!!!! WTF??
For the next 8 months my OH worked a 60-70 hour week to support us until the maternity allowance kicked in. Boy were we so grateful for an extra £100 a week, it meant I could actually see my OH occasionally instead of him working every hour god sent (often from 6am to 9pm) then going straight to bed.

Now I go out to work in the evenings to bring a bit of money in, and my Oh still does some overtime - but at least he's not having to do it all himself and killing himself doing it - he'll get time with Ollie, if not me.

It can be easy, for the people that know the loopholes, and claim fraudulently - but for genuine people who really need it? "sorry youre not entitled to anything..." Its a farce!

Prettygirl/ckib - if you recieve tax credits within 3 months of your baby being born you are entitled to the SSMG, and it is still based on your circumstances how much of it you can be awarded. We got the full £500.

I have to add - does anyone know the truth behind the CTF voucher - do people who are on benefits get £500 for their children as opposed to the standard £250???

xxx

Shit S.Y i really feel for you, your story is unbelievable, this is what pisses me off, my friend was 18 and was living at home with her parents she got £700 a month tax credits (cos she was still on maternity leave), but she didn't have to pay anything!!! her parents bought her everything. We got £11 a week and could barely even afford to live, we got in £8,000 worth of debt and all because we couldn't afford to pay the rent, childcare etc, but no one wants to help you!!! ahhhhhhhhh makes me so F***ing angry!!!! luckily we were given a loan to pay it all off so we just pay a certain amount every month instead of having to pay of a loan here, a loan there, an overdraft, a credit card etc!!! but if the goverment would just take more things in to concideration we would all be a lot better off!!!!!! xxx

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ABSOLUTELY AGREE S.Y and btw you are now given jobs that you have no choice but to apply for or your benefit is stopped!

with regards to the ctf, i think the extra money gets added on when the child is 11 or something equally ridiculous!! (they prob just wait til your not entitled anymore and say NO, LOL)

that just seems to be the way aint it,. people who know what to ask for seem to get it and when everyone else gets into bit of trouble we are told where to go. where is the sense in that what a bloody farse.

I agree with everything about the government too. They make it so easy. My mum also worked for 33 years as a nurse and had to retire last year due to ill health and no fault of her own. The benefits office sent her a letter a few weeks later asking her to attend a return to work meeting. She had never claimed a benefit in her life until last year when she was sick and she is 50. I think it is ridiculous that others can get it handed to them with no questions asked. This subjects really annoys me as there are far too many taking the p**s and I work hard for my money and so does my husband just to keep a roof over our heads.

S.Y, I do agree that it isnt easy when you should be entitled to something but aren't and my point was that it is the people who shouldnt be entitled to it that get it so easily. When I was 5 months pregnant and very obviously so, I had just finished a temporary job and deffered my place at uni so I applied for benefits and was told I was entitled to JSA. I didnt see the point as I was so obviously pregnant but I still applied for jobs etc. I had been going to sign on every fortnight for 2 months (with no money) when I got a letter saying that actually I wasnt entitled to ANYTHING because I was in "full time education" (I had deffered my place at uni and was not attending, I was fully capable and willing to work so i should've been entitled to it, but no.) And yet, when my boyfriend left school, he was still living at home and couldnt be arsed to get a job, he successfully claimed benefits for 3 years! It's mad. He'd never do that now as he works hard but it just shows that the people that should get benefits get bugger all!!! x

Shouldn't all children get the same amount in childcare vouchers? It seems very unfair that my children will probably get less than somebodys who is on certain benefits. Its not the child's fault whether their parents choose to work or not work,so they should all be entitled to the same amount x

i agree why should some kids be given more than others. we are both working but are not in much of a financial situation to put money away although we do try our best.

We are the same,nearly all our money goes on mortgage,bills, car, groceries etc so its not as if we have loads left over to spend on or save for the kids so they should definitely get the same amount as children who's parents do not work.

Wondered if anyone else had noticed about the CTF vouchers! TBH that makes me absolutely livid, I don't understand why some children will need twice as much money on reaching 18 than the rest. It is just putting families who don't claim benefits under pressure to 'top up' their kids trust funds, something which lets face it, most of us can't afford to do. In a sense we are lucky, my fil died while I was expecting Millie and left oh a substantial amount of money which paid off a large proportion of our mortgage. I have absolutely no idea how we would manage otherwise as we still run out of money every month! I do see that for some people benefits are a life line but I think it is high time that the system was changed to make it harder to exploit.

i thought each child gets £500 is that no longer the case? x

ive just been on to website. its says that all children born after march 2006 get a further payment of £250 at 7 but lower income families will get £500. i didnt realise they got another payment so i suppose thats a bit of a bonus

Thats right. I got £250 for Kara and she gets another £250. Low income families get £500 when born and then £500 when they are 7. I don't know how they can justify this. 18 years is a long time and just because the families now are low income it doesn't mean the child will be in 18 years time.

as regards to the ssmg i did apply but they said i wasnt entitled to anything! the goverment do give out jsa to easy so thet why i hoping the conservatives get in as they are all for working familys and are going to put a stop to people who just will not get a job when they can! mad mad mad!!

i can understand kids in low income families getting help with upbringing (ctc) but not a savings bond every child really should be equal. as you say louise it doesnt mean they going to be in the same situation at 18. what if by that point i am then a lower income family are they going to give my child that money. dont think so.

It is again providing people who refuse to work with another incentive to continue in the same way!

its certainly touched a nerve with people! just shows how different we all are.x

This is such an interesting if not slightly heated subject, I personally have always worked exept for an 8 month period of being pregnant and being made redundant and waiting till someone would give a 18year old with a child a chance at a job, managed to work my way up as a single parent and luckily with the help of supportive parents (for free childcare) and working families tax credit for childcare on the days my Mum worked I struggled through the first couple of years but eventually I was in a position to buy us our own house and move out of rented and I feel that I have taught my son invaluble lessons that if I had stayed at home I would not have been able to do. Just because I got myself in a ruddy pickle and was a single parent didnt mean I should be able to carry on as if I had a partner earning a wage the fact is I had chosen (?) and gotten myself into a corner where I needed to be Mummy and Daddy which meant working to support us and teaching him nothing comes for free, I am now the proud Mum to a 10 year old who has an appreciation of money beyond most 16 year olds comprehension.

I dont believe its our right to stay on benifits because we have children we should have thought about that before starting a family and if it was accidental we should work to make the best of a difficult situation, but I also believe each to there own, I know people who have kids and claim benifits and say they should be able to stay at home and care for there children which is up to them it would be a really boring world if we all had the same view. I wouldnt fall out with someone because they dont share my point of view, that would make it a dictatorship.

Well done jmp,i think you've just proved a very good point that your life and your children's life is what you choose to make of it. You decided you wanted to provide a good life for you and your child by pulling your finger out and working for a living, when you could've done what many others in your situation would have done and not bloody bothered! I think you're a great example, you should be proud of yourself xxx

here here LOL!!! well said hun xxx

Im a stay at home mum but was working before i fell pregnant, and intend to go back to work when LO goes to nursery, Just now i have to stay at home with him as hes not very well and has a skin condition, but just because i claim benefits doesnt mean i want to or that i enjoy it, i wish i could go out to work just to have that little bit of freedom and normality as before, yes i do live in a house and get my rent paid for me atm but i do pay council tax at £100 a month i dont under stand how people get that paid for them, im a single parent, with 2 children, i scrimped and saved the best i could to get things for my flat when i moved in last june, most of it is second hand but still in good nick, it people who are on benefits with kids who go out and spend it all on drink and drungs and dont bother about there kids thats what get up my nose... they money is ment to be for the kids to live on not to feed peoples habbits, yeah i stand up for all those who are on benefis and do a hell of a good job of bringing up there kids but where i come from there a hell of a lot of people who just pop kids out to get some money and there kids sit there in a hash filled room with snotty noses, dirty clothes and a nappy that theyve had on for 2 days, thats not on! get a grip to them!
soz just lil rant, i am 18 and do my best to bring up my kids, its not easy when 1 is permanantly not well and you have to go back and forward to the hospital every other day, no one to watch them even for that odd 5 mins you need to yourself, i do evrything for my kids with never a break, i am on benefits, and i am greatful to those who pay taxes so that i can be on benefits to stay at home and look after my kids, but ill be the one paying taxes soon enough and all the money that i had on benefits will get paid back in taxes and 'ill be the fool payin for some one else to sit on the ar**es and so bugger all' as most of you put it.

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I don't think mum2,24 was being 'harsh' She asked you ''why is it the people that claim benefit annoy you so much? should it not be the government for the ridiculous system they have?

Also ''the goverment do give out jsa to easy''

Did you miss S.Y's post? Why do you think it is soo easy? If you honestly believe it is sooo easy then why not get your DH to stop working start claiming and then let us all know how you get on

And that's the point of SSMG that families, single mums, single dads ect on low incomes or benefits recieve it, it goes to the 'needy' as you put it.

I personally am very proud to have the system we do have if we ever again fall on hard times I know help is there **it may be p!ss poor but it's there** where as for example America don't have such a good system. This also includes our NHS it might be awful at times but it's 'free' in the sense we don't have an almighty bill for giving bith. Is it £3000 in France to give birth now? That's alot of money!

And yes we all know people abuse the system but that is down to the goverment to asses and sort out-but then again how many genuine people would be affected?

Also with regards to the 15yr old mother why not? She's 15 not an adult in the eye's of the law so yes she is entilted to it. She isn't entilted to the national wage how would she honestly support a child working??

Lisabby you can claim council tax through your local council they should hand the forms out with HB forms also have you claimed DLA for you lo? It pays for you lo & you to get to and from hospital it pays for the up keep of their care as in equipment you may need such as special matteress for your lo because of their skin ect

Yeah i did get forms for council taxi with my housing beneftt form, but i still have to pay £100 a month council tax, i dont know why, I dont know what DLA is so no havent claimed, yeah i was thinking about matresses, as ive had to go out and by him lots of new cotton clothes as evrything was pollyester or what ever evrything is now, cost a fortune just getting new vest and babygrows and all the rest of the gear lol, bed sheets and covers, ill look in to that DLA though thanks xx

re;joanne&broode,what a silly thing to say,let my oh stop working and claim benifits he would have a heart attack he is very anti benifit as he works 70hrs per week!! as to the 15yrs old girl?? she has only had a baby so she can get everything paid for,and shes not backwards in coming forwards and admitting that ,that is what she said! how do you think it makes all the hard working people feel to know that there are people out there like that its discracefull! that is my point trouble is so many people think the same as me but never dare say it.....my brother and sil have told the social that they have split up so they can get housing benifit! ctax paid it makes me sick!

i have worked since i was 16 i am now 40, the last few years i only worked 3 days a week and pay £280 a month childcare for youngest, eldest is at nursery school, however i was made redundant recently and enquired about what benefits i would be entitled to as i have never claimed anything before, i was told i was not entitled to anything as my oh works and he could provide for us, i do not begrudge anyone benefits but why when i have paid NI and tax for 24 years i can't claim anything.

I think Joanne&Brood has a really good point. The system we have may not be perfect, their may be an awful lot of people who abuse it, but at least the help is there when we need it. I don't thing that for one minute she seriously meant for your oh to give up work, prettygirl, I think she was just making a point. Personally I don't have a problem with the 15 year old with the nice pram, she is entitled to the money and at least she spent it on something for the baby, not drugs or alcohol! She may have got pregnant for the benefits but it's not like having a baby to look after is easy, whether she likes it or not she will be responsible for it for the rest of her life.

that is some of my points exactly waylor12! we pay NI but when it comes down to it we dont get a penny its very wrong.

Our system is crap in most ways, we should all protest out side gordon browns house, hundreds of mums with screeming kids and buggys can u see his face! HAHA! I think its rediculous your not intitled to anything waylor12! They have stupid cut off point if your OH works so many hours then hes on enough to support u all, what a load of rubbish!

Well said Joanne.

I do think that some people abuse the system and it seems to be so easy for the ones who dont really need benefits but the people who are actually honest about it get bugger all. Im not on benefits now but I was on income support when I was pregnant and got £46 a week, I was actually living with my mum but I would have got that even if I was living on my own. Yes if I was on my own I would've got healthy start vouchers and housing benefit but still, £46 a week is nothing to live on, and I did get the maternity grant but again, £500 is not much really, considering the cost of a pram, cot, clothes, toys, nappies etc.

Its the people that abuse the system that I dont like, not the people who genuinely need the money. I do think that single parents should go back into work once their kids are in school, but then I'm not a single parent so I cant really judge those who don't - we all have our own reasons...

i think most people on here are really of the same view that if you need the benefits you should claim for them. its the people who in the position to work and just dont bother. if you have good reason to claim benefits then why shouldnt you.

with the girl at 15. as bedhead said at least she has used the money to buy something for her baby. i know of a couple who spent it on games and cd's. she may have had the baby just to get benefits but in few months time she will realise that its not as easy as that and that it comes with a lot more responsabilty. maybe if childcare wasnt so expensive im lucky that family have my lo) then more people would work.

I know loads of people who say they would be worse off if they went to work as they would have to pay rent/Council tax.

I work for a Housing Association and come into contact with this all the time. I have just had my first child at the age of 37 and have had to sell my home as baby's Dad walked out on us when I was 5 months pregnant. Apparently I earn too much to claim Working Tax Credit and am entitled to less than £1 a day Child Tax Credit. I can't claim the Childcare costs back as the registered Childminder I use is a relative (Who I DO pay!!)!

As a result I am having to live on the small amount of money I made from the sale of the house which annoys me as I wanted to use it as a deposit on a place for baby and me in about a years time.

Meanwhile my next door neighbours stand in the garden of their £500 per month to rent house bragging about how they get this benefit and that. They have cats, dogs, rabbits and 3 kids, are always coming back laden with shopping bags, throwing BBQ's and having nights out. And then I hear the woman tell her brother that she's not going to let on that she's started working part time cos they'll lose out on an extra £5k a year.

I reckon what the Government should do is say 'OK, as far as we are concerned the minimum wage is X amount. From now on benefits will be the equivalent of 40 X that amount... the equivalent of a 40 hr working week. But you pay your own rent, council tax etc'

Watch how many people suddenly find jobs then!!!

i also think its the system thats wrong, people who know the 'tricks of the trade' do very well whilst genuine honest people tend to suffer, there need tgo be strict follow ups and checks on people. it wont harm the honest but may well give the kick that others need. we live in a society where the poor get everything, thestupidly rich dont need anything, and the middle work for both sides. its like old peoples homes the poor get to go free and the ones that worked all their lives to own homes have to sell them to pay. whats the point aside from pride? someone somewhere needs to sit down and rethink the system.
however like joanne&brood said we are lucky in other ways although nhs dont always get it right they are there for us, i know of a relative in egypt whose epileptic girl having a fit was sent away from the hospital as mother didnt have her purse on her when she ran out the door at a sign of a fit! with good comes bad and vice versa

FAO Lisabby
Ask them if your not sure as to why your still paying if they have it wrong and your entiltled to help then they can correct it and you can claim your money back off them I think you can only claim 3 months back-dated but it's better than nothing :)
And the DLA is dissability living allowance it's hard to get as in you may have to appeal the best thing is to get your GP or consultant to do a report to send in with the forms but it's fantastic helping hand for parents and adults that need it.

prettygirl, I don't think it was a ''silly thing to say'' at all ;) actually I think if you really think it is so easy then why not see for yourself instead of assuming it is so easy, plenty of posters on here have already said they have been refused or are stuggaling on the peanuts they are in receiving and yes I am making a point

And yes she is 15 YEARS OLD GIRL NOT AN ADULT on the other hand you are, why let that fact bother and wind you up so much?
Whether you like it or not she has made her bed and lying in it she is using the money on her child and as Bedhead said at least she isn't drinking/doing drugs with the money.
And she again would not be able to earn a wage at the natioanl average she is still classed as a minor a child.
So yes why shouldn't she claim? What else is she suppose to do? Beg, borrow or steal?

''how do you think it makes all the hard working people feel to know that there are people out there like that its discracefull!''

You mean people like me *I work a measly 9hrs aweek for my sanity* and my H2B *who only works 83 hrs a week but is at an advantage as his bed is only 30 steps away from his place of work when he can find it without help pmsl*
How do I feel that a 15 yr old child is claiming for her baby? FANTASTIC we are lucky enough to have this system at least her baby and herself are not straving as many many do around the world and sadly still here, I'd rather see her receive benefits than on the streets with a baby.

With people who abuse the system they are a disgrace to themselves but again down to the goverment and the way the system works sadly it won't change and if it does lets hope it's for the better and to the advantage of those that do need it.

And *if* your brother and sil are claiming fraudulantly then report them if you are so annoyed by it and it makes you feel sick.

''we pay NI but when it comes down to it we dont get a penny its very wrong.''

This is a mis-informed view aswell everytime you go to your GP or hospital you are using 'your NI you pay' it isn't just used on benefits it goes towards the cost of the NHS & SPS also. Which as you guessed I am more than happy to pay as I do get my fair share out of the NHS by my kids an H2B

WOOOOOW what a debate this turned into!!!!!!!

Basically, if ur entitled to it = GOOD
if u abuse system = BAD

I think we all kinda agree on that bit anyway!

Come on mummyx5 you know you want to come to the dark side and join in ;)

LOL I posted on page 1 I think.

:( ok fair enough

How is your pregnancy going? Hope your well :)

i claim benifits only because my oh is disabled and he can't look after our daughter and i am also expecting another child but i am doing a home training course so i can go to work when the kids are a bit older i have managed to get my mother inlaw to look after the yougest when i go back to work while my oldest goes to nursery i will only be working part time at first but when they go to school i will get more hours my parner is also going through a pain management course so he can try and get back to work not every one wants to be on benifits but sometimes you have no choice but the ones that do must have a reason to not wanting to work

lol Mummyx5, couldn't have put it better myself. Love the way you managed to sum up three pages of debate in about 10 words
xx

Joanne&brood - you on Facebook hun? or MSN or Yahoo? feel free to add me if ya like, to any/all/whichever lol

Amanda Spraggs Netherlands
colman1192@hotmail.co.uk
zaandam_angel@yahoo.com

i am a stay at home single mum on benefits.
immagrants come over and go straight onto benefits at the click of their fingers...i have payed tax and ni for 10 years before having my lo so like some of the others on here i think i'm entitled to it.
i never planned or wanted to claim, i only recently went on benefits when i had to coz i split from oh. my lo is only 14 months so i don't want to pay someone else to tell me at the end of each day about the new milestones my daughter has reached. i had a baby coz i wanted to bring it up myself, i had a partner to support me at the time.
i get annoyed with the young kids that have never worked then have babies to get benefits and housing for an easy life...they don't realise at the time have a baby full time is not getting an easy life. or when there are couples with kids and neither work...that is just pure laziness.
i do agree that some people take the piss out of the system, but find it unfair when people slate everyone on benefits.
xxx

re:joanne&brood,wow i obviously touched a big nerve with you lol!! oh yes i did report my sceaming brother for abusing the system just a shame that more people dont!

Hi, I agree with both sides of this arguement.

I do think its good how the goverment do help people in need, sometimes in life we are not in control of things and do need help and to recieve this help is nice. However in this society we do have people that abuse it and I cant stand people who do this. I live in an area where most people do not work and scrounge, this is where the goverment let us down as I do believe they should be tougher.

I do not work myself and a stay at home mum my husband works an extreme amount of hours so that we can live comfortably and for me to stay at home.

About a year ago though we hit a troubled patch in our lives and split for 3 months, in this period my husband did pay maintenance and helped as much as he could but you cant live apart on one wage therefore I did recieve help with rent and tax credits but didnt recieve income support due to the maintenance. We were very grateful for this and it did help but as soon as we resolved our problems and he moved back home we were back to paying full wack on everything.

I will say though for people that knock the goverment, you never know when your siuation may change and you may need that added help, at the end of the day we all live to our means wether you are on a high wage or low wage you always struggle in one way or another. I does make me angry when there are people that can work but choose not to.

Sorry dont mean to offend and hope I make sense as I struggle to put things in the right words.

Anyway good luck to all xxxx

i get so angry about this to, some one my hubby works with only works basic hours but goes on 2 week hols in the sun, weekends a way all the time has loads of money to waist down the pub etc all because his girlfriend hasnt said he has moved in so they have all the benifits etc and his wages where as my hubby has to work every hour of overtime possible and we cant afford a holiday. i also have known someone whos partner did the min number of hours at college just to stay on benifits and so he didnt have to work to pay for a child from a previous relationship too. he now has about 7 kids with loads of different women and the tax payers are paying for them. iv also spoken to a mv that was saying that when polish women are giving back paperwork is suppost to be done so the nhs doesnt pay, but it never gets done, just another thing that we shouldnt pay for. i know people that really need it should have it and they dont have it easy, i cant imagine how hard it is for those single mums but it makes me so made that its so easy for some people to just take the p**s and never get caught

RE: partygirl, no you haven't ''touched a big nerve'' with me

It's a debate isn't it?

And I have asked you questions that you are clearly ignoring/unable to answer but I suppose the latter is the answer though isn't it?

I am on benefits and it is no-ones business why I am but I have my reasons. Don't think you should judge people on benefits when you do not know the reason why they are on it!

siandonna your so right, thats what pisses me off, not so much that they do it cos theres people doing illegal things all the time, but the fact that none of these people seem to get caught, If the police took it more seriously and these people that are swindling money by working cash in hand and claiming, or living with a partner and not telling any one etc, were given a criminal record and made to pay it back, that sort of thing, i dont think so many people would take the piss

Quote:

totally agree hun, well said, i am not on benifits apart from working family tax but i think some people have a right to be on them x

im getting so grumpy in my old age,lol, i just feel like this country has lost contol. if you go to other counties you have to jump through so many hoops to be let in, claim benifits and get health care etc. i think france has recently changed there rules so you have to live there 5 years before getting free health care. its not being mean, there just protecting them selves. our stupid country is a big joke. people come here just to give birth on the nhs, get benifits and go back home after a couple of months. cant the govenment see, people are taking the mickey. its on the tv all the time people that cant get the latest cancer drugs on the nhs, but we will supply free health care fot the whole of europe if there just turn up. grrrrrr. bring back the old britain where we had some control and looked out for our little contry

siandonna you've made a good point. I remember seeing on the news a few months back about how immigrant mothers are putting a massive strain on maternity services in this country. We are hugely short of midwives as it is and these people are depriving British women of their right to good quality maternity care, which many don't get anymore. I think that people should only be allowed into this country if they have a job to come to or, if they haven't found a job after a certain amount of time, send them home. I am by no means racist and have absolutely no problem with foreign people coming to live here as long as they pay their way. Its like some girls on this forum who have genuinely needed to claim benefits for a short time to tide them over and have been told they don't qualify, when they've worked hard and paid in all their lives. Then Mr and Mrs Whoever come over in the back of a lorry with some sob story about how hard THEIR life is in their country, and a life of luxury is handed to them on a plate at the expense us all. The system is a joke x

My friend has been at the hospital for over 24hrs now waiting to be induced because they are to busy and yesterday a lady was turned away from brighton hospital cos no room and had her baby in the car park of haywards heath about 45 mins away!!!!! unbelievable xxx

Its an idea - why dont we have a system similar to frances? Why do we just let them come in and take everything?

I'm not a racist, and i know that they come and do jobs that maybe british people dont want to do (Or do they!?!) but do we really need to let so many in? There are thousands of immigrants here only to claim the benefits, because it is widely known that it is a great system compared to other countries.

My dad once encountered a lady, not sure where she was from, who could barey speak english. She knew enough english to askk him where she went to get the 'free' money.

I think that says it all!

xxx

Wow this could get really heated, race seems to bring out massive rows even bigger than the bf v's ff.

I hate to say it because it really means you are, so instead of saying I am not racist I will say I am racist when foreign people want to change my way of life, I think we have to many imigrants I think it is the governments fault, we are a frickin island so could be as choosy as Oz as to who we take in and have it on our terms more. Once in this country all to many seem to know what a soft bloody touch we are and not only do our councils now HAVE to keep a certain amount of houses to one side for imigrants who may not have even arrived yet which people that are already here NEED our government feels it ought to change all of our countries values to accomodate these people?!?!?!? if I moved to a foreign country I would move there because I wanted to and liked their ways and so would not try to turn it into a mini version of my home country. We need to find balance with the multi cultural society we have now before adding anymore obsticles.

That saying about sort your own back yard out before trying to sort others springs to mind. perhaps someone should tell Mr Brown?

i know this is going off the original subject slightly now but it makes me made that in our area we cant even get our kids into our local school let alone trying to choose a good one like you use to be able to. i cant see we are breeding that quick so must be the people coming in. they are building so many new home down her it is un real yet there are load of locals needing council housing and not getting it, not to mention where are all the schools, docs, hospital to accomidate everyone. also i get really angry when our kids cant do nativity plays, as it may offend other religions. we are loosing our identity as a country. i have no problem with my kids learning about other religions but they still need to have there own culture and identity. if i went to live in another country i would expect me and my kids to change a lot to fit in with them, and so we should if we liked there country enough to go there.

you are right, it's probably only a matter of time before they ban Christmas!

Me and my OH work. He works 38 hours and I work 12 and a half. We have 2 children aged 3 and 6 months. We get £104 a week tax credits as we are on low wage (my partners working on that). We pay all our bills, buy food and generally live on this and our wages. We do have money left over but that mainly goes on birthday prezzys and other things. We manage but in general we'd be better off if we didn't work!!!Its disgusting!!!

Quote:

havent they tried that already? Something about wanting it renamed to the 'festive season' and no mention of xmas... ? Cant remember where i saw/read/heard it....

Were not allowed to celebrate St georges day either, or not supposed to.....One local club round here got the english flag painted on all his windows, and has been shut down until its taken off. Also been fined for every day he doesnt so doubly losing out! All because he's proud he's english and shows the flag.

I am a stay at home mum but my partner works around 60 hours a week jsut so we can afford to live.
When i fell pregnant last year i was training to be a nurse and had worked for the best part of 10 years before that always paying my NI and tax. I had to be signed off nursing as was really poorly. now because i was a student i wasnt entilted to sick pay. I did get incapacity benefit but i had to push for it. i went from getting £500 a month to £120. How we survived on jsut this and my partners wage (he had a lower paid job back then) i dont know. Now i do claim working and child tax credits and why not?! if other people can get them then why shouldnt i. admitedly it isnt alot but surely its better in my pocket than in the governments.

My sis found herself out of work as she also was training to be a nurse but left as couldnt manage it anymore. now she tried and tried to find a job but couldnt. she claimed jobseekers for around 6 months and she actually dreaded going in the job centre as there were people their getting their giro then going over the road getting loads of alcohol then hangning around getting drunk. i know everyone isnt the same and i do agree that if u deserve it then u should get it but why do they let people get away with it who shouldnt.
my sis got married so thats why she stopped claiming it as she wasnt entilted.

i cant understand why they dont do more checks as when we filled out our tax forms they virtually were asking for our inside leg measurement!!! if they did then the stigma attached to benefits might change.

now even tho we get tax credits we still dont really have enough to live and i am starting to look for a job which i really dont want to as LO is only 7 months old. but once u have paid rent, council tax (which is huge), water, electric...etc etc there jsut isnt anything left.

re;joanne&broode,tell which questions and i will answer them??? and its prettygirl not partygirl??

not everyone wants to be on benifits i work from the age of 16 till the age of 23 i was going to go back to work when my daughter was old enough then my partner had a fall and really did his back in i would love to go back to work but at the moment i am near the end of my second pregnancy so no one will employ me and my partner can not look after our daughter because of his backwe can not afford for anyone to look after our daughter either

PMSL prettygirl cut the ''e'' off the end you'll get the name right then :)

I take it that it was the latter then???
It's a debate, I'm not going to tell you the questions I have already asked go look them up.
The point of having a debate is that you answer the questions posed at you in a way that defends your response and point as to ''back it up'' ;)

I just had to poke my nose in on this!i think all to often ppl judge and pigeonhole ppl who claim benefits,i admit i have been guilty of this myself in the past..i used to look down on young girls who seemingly got pregnant again and again,never worked,and got a house paid for,but this is a sterotype and not everyone who claims benefits fits this description!Im a single mum,spilt with my partner for good when lo was 1mth...i fully intenended to return to work but they wanted me to do weekends,bank hols,over Xmas(i worked in a Hotel)and i just thought no way,not now i have a lo so i left...i now claim benefits,which is something i never wanted to do or foresaw myself doing!!!Ive worked from leaving school,never claimed anything before(im 30 now)so it annoys me when ppl say that most ppl claiming benefits are lazy ect...I cant work fulltime as i have no one to look after my son and to put him into a nursrey would cost me far to much,and tbh i want to bring my child up not go to work so i can pay someone else to do it!what with my mortgage repayments im struggling on benefits to make ends meet...it isnt bloody easy and not everything is handed to you on a plate!

Joanne u make me laugh so much! I'm a single mum with 2 young boys, i work 16hrs a week and my boys go to nursery. I receive no maintenance from their dad so i get working tax credits & child tax credits. I do pay some rent and council tax but i dont have to pay the full amount. I work because i feel its good for the boys & i to have a break from each other & also because my ex left me with a load of debts in my name (more fool me) My oldest will start school in sept & i've been told i dont qualify for...

Oh and the babies dad...?he gets it easy claiming benefits and paying £5 a wk in csa payments to his child!THAT is lazy and gives ppl on benefits a bad name!

Free school meals or uniform grants or anything but my ex's sis who has never had a job & is now trying for another baby coz her lo start school in sept too & she has admitted she doesnt want to work and she's getting school dinners & clothing grant & even travel expenses coz she has to get a bus to the school! She has a partner but he's never worked either. That really annoys me! Also, even though i have a low income, when my youngest was born he didnt get the £500 ctf because i get working tax credits!

Oops! Posted twice! x


[Modified by: Mum0f2 on June 25, 2008 08:48 PM]

Hi Gemma did you get your laptop sorted? I've sent you a message on FB hun x

There needs to be some kind of benefits system in place for those who TRULY need help. But as has been said already, there will always be those who dont need to claim who will take advantage of an easy system to defraud.

I personally know of a single mum who, once her child was nearing the end of high school, was complaining bitterly that she was being 'harassed' to find a job. Next thing you know, she is pg again. No bloke on the scene, but a lo on the way to guarantee that she can carry on receiving her benefits, rent paid on her 3 bed council house,and her council tax paid for a good few years to come.

She is an example of the type who pi$$ every tax-payer off!!

re;joanne&brood "e" RAOFLMAO this is so funny! as far as i can see ive answered the questions and said my peace im pleased ive got my point of veiw across!!

partygirl,

*rolls eyes*

I know now as did originally it was the latter you were unable to answer the questions. And you know what that's ok to admit defeat especially in a debate ;)

I have nothing at all against people on benifits i think if you have to claim them to help your circumstances then thats fine....however i do have to agree with prettygirl on this one there are just to many people abusing the system that its becoming a joke it is partly the goverments fault but we all have a choice in life to make our own life better! i personaly wouldnt want to be in the catagory of being someone that claims benifit "quote"...... just to abuse the system it makes me feel proud of the fact that i can work and look after my children on my own!

thanks dons1 ! i dont have to justify myself.xx

Who said you HAD to justify yourself?
You started the debate.........

prettygirl I think its terrible that you have called alot of honest people who would love to work but have reasons why they can't lazy c****. How would you like it if I started throwing insults at you, even though I don't know you?Do you have a job?

if you had read my origanal posts you would have seen that i didnt call "honest people" lazy c****!!!!! at all! i did infact say that..."im not saying its all people that claim benifits just the ones that rub it in your face"... nothing to do with honest people,like the girl who thought it was great she had,had a baby just to claim benifits! i have never had a problem with people getting what benifits they deserve just the ones that dont deserve to claim coz they would rather abuse the system.....and no i dont work i am a sahm my oh works to look after us which is the way he wants it but i worked right up untill i had the lo....why????

Quote:

You didn't say except honest people who have no choice but to claim benefits, you put all people in 1 group judging everyone by the actions of one person, that is called stereotyping, which, only ignorant people would do. Next time don't do that, it just makes you look stupid!

Oh fantastic, I go on holiday for a week and come back to a heated debate, dont you just love it and lets face it the benefit debate will always get peoples backs up. I have 4 children and up untill Isaac was born 14 months ago I have always worked because i was lucky enough to be able to afford the child care, however now having 2 children below school age I cannot afford the child care so I am a sahm, My hubby works but we do claim the child tax credit and why shouldnt we, We have both worked and have both paid into the system and we are entitled to it.

When Isaac is at school I do intend to go back to work but do I feel guilty about claiming what I am entitled to ??? No I do not, I do agree that people who abuse the system are bad and maybe the government should do something about them, but would I make my hubby work all the hours god sends so I didnt have to claim the child tax credit? No I wouldnt, why should he work stupid hours and miss out on all the magical moments of his family growing up.

This is a really touchy subject but heres my bit, I am in a rship but my partner is a full time student at the age of 29 so he gets his student loan, I am not entitled to benefits because of this, however in the past we have claimed and for a very good reason, ppl who sign on to benefits do it so help themselves survive simple as, its not to intentionally leech off others etc

And i dont believe anyone really rubs benefits in peoples faces, It makes no sense?

But tbh if my partner was not at uni I would be claiming as I am a full time mum, the childcare is real expensive and with all the bills we just could not afford it, I think a few of the things on here are well out of order, who's business is it if a young girl is on the dole claiming benefits and buying nice things for her baby? ITS HERS

I really dont think girls in that position should be judged there could be any reason for it, I think branding women like that is unjust, uncalled for and tbh quite pathetic

If i were you I would just concentrate on your own income and stop worrying about where everyone else gets there money

Thanks

Well said Charlotte&Faith I totally agree with you and am in exactly the same position. You really couldn't have said it better hun!

not a problem chick i really cant stand ppl being branded due to them claiming benefits, if it were not for benefits alot of families would be in a lot of trouble. how olds ur lil one claire?

im on mat leave hubby works and we get help with tax credits were both better off for working than being on the dole personally i couldnt live on 120 quid a fortnight i want my children to be proud of us

i think ur children will be proud of you no matter what you do, its your own choice whether to work or not

and tbh i dnt think anyone shud giv a crap what other ppl think of them after all everyone needs to survive somehow

Exactly! That system is there to help people, what will they do if they ever need help and people start complaining and judging them? I think it would be a different story then, definatly. Anyways my lo is 20 weeks old, how old is yours? What does your partner study? Mine is studying health and social care. Theres another point these people who are complaining, when my patner is helping take care of them or one of their loved ones in hospital, they won't be complaining then would they, my partner has to claim benefits whilst he is studying as there is no time for a job as he does voluntary work in a hospital as well. He is studying to get a good career and job so he doesn't have to claim. I will be returning to college also in September to get a good career, which, probably is more than what some people are doing! I know am ranting and raving but this post has really upset me!

my lo is 8 months old and it has been a struggle but i would not change it for the world, my partner does script writing he is amazin at it, im so proud of him for gettin out there and doin something he will geta good job from :)

same as me gale...i would like my children to be proud of me and to set a good example is to show how hard you work,i couldnt live of the dole either its just not enough to keep us going....but its just a personal choice!

So your trying to say that if some1 was married then husband left them and she had to go on2 benifits as working in a shop wouldnt cover the child care, that her children wouldnt be proud of her!
What a terrible thing to say. Its been proven by government studies that children who are looked after by their parents do better in life generally school relationships jobs etc.

The hardest job you can possibly have is being a single parent and yes there are some people who claim money and spend it on themselves not their children but this does not give any body a right to slag off all people on benefits or say that they are a bad parent for doin so!
This has made me so mad!!!!!!

*roll eyes*

It has made me very angry. So, gayle mcfedries and dons1, will my child not be proud of me and my partner for studying hard in order to get good careers to look after him? Of course he will! So your chatting a load of sh** there! We're setting a very good example! Why are you rolling your eyes prettygirl?

Why the roll of the eyes, I think that most people on here agree that the help you can get when you are a sahm is invaluable, it is not a massive amount of money but it helps, like I said in my previous post it is not financially viable for me to go back to work with 2 children under school age and no way would i expect my husband to work any more hours than he does, he works full time and he does extra hours when he is needed at work.

The children are his too and why should he miss out on any of the precious times, I do not consider myself to be a scrounger, I am not on the dole I merely claim the child tax credits that we are entitled to and without them we would probably not be able to survive very well, we do not scrounge and tbh most of the tax credits and child benefit we recieve get saved up for our family holidays the rest goes on shoes, clothes and other things for the children.

why is the debate still going on?

prettygirl stop rolling your eyes and go back to where you came from! honestly all your doing is trying to create an argument on a forum where all us mums come for support!! it's disgusting!
and where have all these newbies come from to support you??

NOBODY SHOULD BE LOOKED DOWN ON FOR CLAIMING BENEFIT... END OF!!

(mini rant from me, LOL)

look for some reason you have all perceived this in the wrong way! i to am a sahm who gets tax credits and of course child benifit but i dont claim the dole my post in the first place was about people who claim and abuse the system so they can get a free house and ct etc! nothing to do with tc or cb!!! and im rolling my eyes coz you all just dont seem to get it *roll eyes* again!

get over urself woman, some people have to claim the dole so go and crawl back in ur hole ur a sh!t stirrer by the looks and sounds of it either that or ur just a stuck up cow who looks down her nose at families less fortunate than you, alot of families have to claim it and its none of your business so do us a favour and give your mouth a rest

actually im made up for people who work n woteva but im made up also for people on benefits who are actually doing sumfink to get a job well dun !!! but i understand ur point if people r on benfits an are not doing nefink to get a job or study to get a job but want u want us to do dnt get ne help wit muny to look after are babies do u really want us to make them starve ay !!!!!! are you really that THICK AY!!!!!!!!!! think all ur brains av fizzled out after avin a baby n i think ur opinions are out ov order . an do ya no wa at least ppl who are on benefits see there kids growin up an can play wit them n stuff instead of shuvvin em off whilst u go to work cum ome n moan on this abar benefits u sad bast**** and as for that matter WHAT GIVES U THE RIGHT TO INTIMIDATE PPL ON BENEFITS WHEN U DNT NO NE PROBLEMS THEY MITE HAVE AND OTHER STUFF DO U MOAN ABAR PPL WHO ARE ON DISABILITY ALLOWANCE AN ARE IN WHEEL CHAIRS WHO THINK THEY DNT HAV TO WORK CUZ THEY R IN A WHEEL CHAIR NO U F***IN DNT DO YA

well said charlotte and faith. and pretty girl I think people do get it we have all agreed that people who milk the system are wrong maybe it is you who isnt getting it. Bringing up a baby is a struggle however you do it and at the end of the day the vast majority of parents out there are doing the best for their children and the people who come on here want to chat and have a bit of support not get made to feel like a piece of crap for claiming a few measley pounds because for whatever reason they cannot work at the moment!

Exactly!!!!!!!

av yas all dun a bit ov work av yas ya moanin little sh**s u all make me angry who say fings like tha as if ur the queen cuz u work well kiss my ass bcuz at the end ov the day its ar lives n we will do wot we want for them ok so now shut up n get on wit ya sad little lives

well said sam, tbh if i didnt have my ctc every week and my cb id b up sh!t street as i cant pay the council 900 quid a year plus pay the rent all the utility bills stuff for faith etc on my partners student loan its just impossible ya no

cant understand a bloody word of that post samantha89.....! raofl !

i'm gonna repeat myself

Quote:

I know what you mean Charlotte&Faith and if some people could take their big fat heads out of their ars£s then they would understand too! Also well said Sam!!! Me thinks prettygirl needs to be more educated to understand this!! The dumb bit**

lly angry wit it tho cuz ppl think they can make ppl feel really small becuz of things they do well no one is perfect n i dnt think they know that yet !!!! wake up n realise that this is the real world not sum fantasy world !!!!!

think everyone needs to calm down! samantha89 you have just said some awfull things too, you are discriminating against people who work then??? rite i will get on with my sad little life now..... lol

dons i think why sam is so annoyed is that ppl said on here they want their kids to be proud of them and she feels its out of order to say that because the way it comes across is that ppl on the dole's kids will not be proud of them, it cuts deep ya no, i think all children no matter if their parents work all week or are at home all the time will be proud of them, and tbh i think i bond alot better with my child as I am home with her and I never miss a moment of her growing up

yes i can see how it may of looked but wasnt really meant in that way, i cant believe what some people have put on here! and the last few posts are really horrible you have all said some really nasty things!

yeah but to be fair we are all really offended as it is a soft subject ya no, she should have seen the upset and annoyance this post would have caused, it puts the post creator in a bad light and paints a very poor picture of her, it also shows us she is very shallow well in my opinion anyway

Well prettygirl is a sahm and is discriminating against other sahm just because they are on benefits and she isn't! Its disgusting! So dons1, is my son not going to be proud of me?

well its only a debate and there will allways be posts like this...we are all mums but some people have stronger opinions than others! i think this debate should be well and truely over now if its causing upset and if people do want to carry it on then more fool them!

I think we are all getting abit heated now,but then this was bound to happen...i too dont like the idea that some ppl seem to have about if you dont go out to work your setting a bad example to your child,the best parent is a parent who puts their child first,shows them love and teaches them the right morals and values in life NOT one who slaves away for god knows how many hours and hardly gets to spend any proper time with their child,though im NOT knocking that and do admire those that do!I have tried working the hours i could get that were suitable ect and found i was worse off with childcare costs and my other benefits were cut because i worked afew hours extra...its a crazy system!im a single mum and luckily i have a great mum who helps me out hugely,i own my own house and get no help with the mortgage which isnt cheap and im bloody struggling to make ends meet for me and my child...with no help from the babies dad i might add!!!!!!!this is despite being on benefits,which as i said earlier im better off staying on them!i didnt make the rules and its ppl like me and many many others in similar situations that need MORE help if you ask me!i dont plan to be on benefits and not working forever and maybe if i had another choice i would go to work also but i dont right now!i just hate being shooved into this horrible sterotype!BUT all that ranting aside i do think Prettygirl was only trying to make a point that SOME ppl DO abuse it and NEVER intend to work and i know of a few!!!!!!!!!!hope everyone is well and im finding it really intresting if not uncomfortable sometimes reading all these posts!lol x

More fool the person who started it more like!

well said sarahlou78....CASE CLOSED!

ive been a single mum on benefits and struggled and hated it and ive worked and found out how hard it is to earn enough to cover rent, council tax, minders, etc. i have had apartner for the past 6yrs and we struggle again with the same bills. school dinners are easy if you have 1 child but pay yhem for 2 or more, then milk which is 10pounds each child per term. then rent, council tax and water rates yet alone other bills. it annoys me that we arent on benefits but my partner who works and gets paid last day of every month gets constantly moaned at causeevery bill gets paid whan he does. leicester city council expect rent and council tax amonth in advance. who can manage that. try to pay weekly and they want you to go to court should you miss their payment day. its a joke. ive seen it from all sides but disagree on people who stay at home on benefits and deliberately have kids for this reason. they must feel very trapped doing this. young people are still naive to have kids for houses, extra bebefiys etc as you dont get alot. no wonder young mums get into debt and neglect their kids. theyve had them for the wrong reasons. look at the girl who left her 2yr old in a kitchen and went out leaving him in appalling conditions for days. theres too many spongers on benefits and the socal clamp down on the wrong people. my ex didnt work and claimed incapacity for alcohism and got the benefit just handede to him. he worked on the side despite me reporting him. then he signs off when hes caught and csa still dont get maintenance. my nice antisocial neighbours claim benefits, work on the side and never get caught too. its a joke but hey they interview you yearly now on income suupport knowing you probably cannot work with children athome. and yes for genuine mums it is afulltime job.

I think everyone is getting carried away prettygirl has a right to her opinion aswell. She may not be very tactful in the way she has put it but it's her opinion not everyone has to agree.

And just so you know she is also here for support. I have given her advice and nobody has the right to tell anyone to leave or go back to where they came from.

She has started the debete and yes she hasn't explained her opinion properly or answered questions put to her but she doesn't deserve the personal abuse from people on here.

A debate is about 'debating' you put your opinions across sometimes with facts sometimes not. But you don't get personal or let it get to you. IMO if you can't debate and you let someone's opinion get to you then don't get involved because that isn't what debating is all about.

There is no need for the personal attack on prettygirl as I have just read. That is truly disgusting especially as most of you are saying how this is suppose to be a support forum.

I am now reporting this thread to the moderators.

Well said Joanne, everyone is entitled to their opinions but this has gone WAY too far, there is absolutely no excuse for personal attacks.

I take it personal though when someone insults the way I live. I was deeply offended and hurt by what she said, I admit and am sorry for saying the personal insult, but everything else is my opinion too, which aren't I entitled to?

I just don't believe there is any need at all under no circumstances for ppl to lower themselves into personal attacks it's just wrong have the upperhand and rise above it.

And yes everyone should have their opinions but people shouldn't personally attack someone it's not nice and is unjust, we are ment to be adults here.

And yes I know it's hard but there is a difference in debating and personally attacking someone which has happened here as I am sure we can all see that.

We all see prettygirl isn't as tactful as some but she is still here for SUPPORT just like everyone.

I have already reported this thread lets hope the moderator see's that soon x

i totally agree joanne. i put my opinion on here way back on page 1 or 2 and havent read for a while and i was quite shocked by the way this debate has turned. the idea was to put forward your opinion on how you feel about the topic not to personally insult anyone. prettygirls did not pic out names and insult those people she just put her opinion across (sometimes not greatly as joanne said). it has turned into a headhunt and is a very worrying situation when the reason we come on here is for support and friendship. lets hope we can put this post behind us and still rely on each other for support.xx

this is getting ridiculous, all pretty girl was saying was that alot of people take advantage and openly brag about how much benefits they are getting, i know some one who has specifically had more children so that they get more benefits and to get a bigger council house THAT IS TAKING THE PISS!!!! pretty girl wasnt saying that EVERYONE that is on benefits is on it because they cant be bothered to work, she was just saying "does it piss you off when people take advantage?" and everyone is getting so heated and abusive when it didnt need to get to that stage, guys chill out!! xx

o.k i'll be the first to apologise i had a bad day yesterday and i suppose everyone has the right to think whatever they want. i will agree that this thread is getting out of hand and i'll not be posting on it again

Yeh i think some people on here are taking offence unnecessarily. I think the majority of what prettygirl has said is that it is the people who dont need benefits that continue to claim them (i.e the Keith Miller from Eastenders types) that are the problem, not sahm that can't work etc. As long as you know you are claiming benefits for a genuine and honest reason (which most mums do) then i dont see any problem?

Emma i think that is it exactly, well said hun :) xx

I just dont understand when ppl say they are happy with their lives and know they are only claiming benefits because they have to (which i have no doubt for many is very true) but then completely fly off the handle because somebody says they want their children to be proud of them for working?? As long as you are all comfortable with the way you live your lives then there is really no need to care what other ppl think. I too want my kids to be proud of me because i work ( and i am proud of myself because i work) but that does not for one moment mean that i think children of sahm's shouldn't be proud of them, just for different things thats all.

yea exactly, i work 3 days a week doing 11 our days cos its the only way i could work and afford to pay for childcare, but i am very lucky that i am able to do my job in those hours, i am trying for another baby and it would be physically impossible to have 2 children in childcare and me work, it just wouldn't make financial sense, so once i have had my second baby i will have probably 2 years off as i want to go back to colleage to do an NVQ as a nursery nurse, so this is one example when i feel it is ok to not work, (plus my partner will be working the whole time) this is completley different, to having a partner and myself just staying at home because we cant be bothered to work which also happens, i just think that benefits are there for people like us on this forum who have thought it all through and are doing there best for our families :)
P.S what is SAHM? xx

sorry it stands for Stay At Home Mum

oooooooooooo what a thicko LOL thanks :)

thanx joanne&broode,angel and twizzlepie, im sorry if i offended anyone but it was just a debate,i have also reported it to the moderator as i felt it got a little out of hand with the personal attacks,i think that went to far.x


[Modified by: prettygirl on June 30, 2008 11:32 AM]

i would have done the same i was thinking as i was reading through should people be able to write this stuff, so the moderators can decide xxx

I agree...the personal insults were a step too far!we should all be supporting one another,even if we dont always agree with others opinions,well isnt that life?no need for name calling...take care all x

love you all LOL!!! **big hugs!!!** xxx

yes i agree we're all adults the name calling and swearing just made ppl look a bit silly x

I agree this subject has got a bit out of hand, I would like to apologise if what i said offended anyone, I hope I put my views accross in a way that didnt offend but if they did then I am sorry xxx

I would just like to take this oppitunity to apologize and if i affended anyone then i am sorry,i am just like everyone else on the forum a mummy...i will learn by my mistakes by trying not to be so opinionated and i admit i am not the most tactfull person in the world! it should never of gone this far...it was the end for me when i read all the name calling and personal insults nobody deserves that! hope to chat on other threads soon.claudia.xxx

hey prettygirl as i said in my previous thread I hope nothing I said offended you I know i didnt name call and admit that did get too much which is why I logged off last night as you rightly say we are all mummys and all want support. I do agree with you that people who take the mickey are wrong but sometimes and for the majority some benefits are an invaluable support. xx

hiya everyone, i have just read all the opinions on this thread and can i just say this is the exact reason i haven't been on here in months, everything is always taken out of context and everyone has there own opinion but on here it doesn't seem to be allowed anymore without someone completely bitching! i used to enjoy this site and have made a good few friends and all i can say is thank god for like of face book and bebo! and just take into consideration that this site is for mums and mums to be get advice and to give not to completely slag and slate people xx